We have noticed that with a lot of free verse poetry doesn’t seem to have the same meter from line to line, or even an apparent consistency. How important is cadence in the construction of a poem when you are writing? How important is it to the flow of the poem?
Which type of poetry is “better” (We know this is an extremely subjective thing), ones that rhyme (50-55ish) or free verse where the content is the center of the piece, not so much the words.
“The most important point in the line is the line is the end of the line. The second most important point is the beginning of it.” (Pg 52) Do you agree with this idea? Are their some cases where this is reversed?
Myers: On page 92, he talks about "Thematic Shapes of Poems". How do you think shaping a poem makes it better? Why do you think that poets use thematic shapes?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCadence is extremely important in a poem. You need it to make the poem flow and to produce the proper reaction from your audience, in addition to proper word choice to evoke the right images.
ReplyDeleteWords are extremely important in free verse, possibly even more so than in metrical poems, because you do not have a specific meter and rhyme scheme to aid you in your writing.
While I think Cadence is important I think its secondary to a poem that I personally would make, in the editing of a poem the further it develops the more important it becomes.
ReplyDeleteThis is why free verse attracts me to it while I do like rhyming poetry, the open endedness of free verse allows for anything and everything.
In rhyming I would absolutely agree to “The most important point in the line is the line is the end of the line. The second most important point is the beginning of it.” but in free verse I would have to say thats only true about half the time since the emphasis really relies on the content and the placement of punctuation.
Cadence is importantly only if it helps you show your meaning or mood of the poem. I write poems about confusion, or misunderstandings, and having I use a broken cadence to help show the break in thought. I believe personally the end of the line is the most important. I know many poems that if you only had read the last line you could understand the poems mood or even rarely their meaning.
ReplyDeleteI am much more a fan of free verse poems, but cadence can still be a very integral part of free verse poem. Mixing in repetition, lyricism, aliteration, consonance, and assonance can fluff up a poem to be much more intriguing than just a ramble with a point. As for the first half of the line vs. the second half of the line, I would say that the importance evenly distributed as David claims. The point is usually driven home at the end of the line, but sometimes an opening analogy or simile or phrase can snap the reader out of its reverie and make him or her giggle, cry, or think a little harder. I've never messed with shaping a poem, and think its only real use is in pure shapes (circle, square, heart, teardrop) an its overall value isn't that significant.
ReplyDeleteCandence in important especially if you are trying to convey a certain mood or meaning, or feeling in your poetry. When I write, I am definitely trying to covey a specific feeling depending on what I am writing about. I don't think that there is a "better" type of poetry. I think that it depends of the topic of the writing and the way you want to present it. I think that the ending of the line is important because if you just read the beginning of it you won't get the whole meaning of it.
ReplyDeleteI think when most people think of poetry, that they think of rhyming poems in a more traditional sense, this isn't me saying that candence is the most important thing to poetry, but it is certainly a classic trait that is associated with it. I think that you can put your point where ever it works in a poem, some casses it is just set up in a way that might be abstract but that doesn't make the message any less meaningful or significant. The shape of a poem should go along with the tone of the poem, if you have a simpler idea I think that shorter verses are easier to understand.
ReplyDeleteI think the cadence of the poem all depends on who's reading. the flow somewhat seems to matter more when the poem is read outloud, rather than in your own head. I also say the same for rhyme vs content. Are you looking to be playful and flirtatious or are you trying to get more meaning across, and do you do so with the poem being read in your own mind or to others. The message in the line is both the beginning and the end, and so aren't both point important? shaping a poem gives the piece a visual, which is important to how some people view it. However although the presentation means a great deal, i'm not sure how much that visual matters, at least i dont think it matters much to me.
ReplyDeleteOne of the major points to poetry is to bring forth a certain emotion that the write is trying to convey. Cadence is one of many tools which make any poem original and not just a paragraph. In many cases with my poetry, i found that rhyming would usually take away from my points, I like free verse much better. I can find instances where there are middle lines that are just as important as the first and last, I also think that it depends on the poem concerning the importance of the first and last line.
ReplyDeleteI think that each poem is going to be different, and like Eli said, each once will convey something different depending upon the way it is written, and of course the content as well. Cadence is essential to some poetry, but may not be necessary for other pieces to express what they are trying to get across, but it all depends on how it is read and interpreted- sometimes cadence adds to that and sometimes it isn't necessary.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I don't have a favourite here either. Some poetry is awesome when it rhymes, but that means the meter needs to be spot on as well. Free verse is also really interesting, and when read the right way can be so expressive and would not be able to get the same message across if there was rhyme. I don't think that this paragraph is free verse though, because it is not as poetic or expressive or layered as a poem would be, but yea I don't really know where I'm going with that....
The 'shape' of the context of a poem is always present, but the reader, and even the righter sometimes may no be aware of this until they are looking specifically for it.
I know that it can sound like a cop-out to reply “it depends,” but that is my answer. Cadence is necessary when the author wants to provide the reader with cohesive thoughts and a solid final conclusion, even if the conclusion is that there is no conclusion. A poem that is meant to reflect confusion and disjointedness in the thought process of the author may call for a lack of cadency. I suppose my perspective is this: If cadency shortens the path to understanding the message of the poem, it should be present. If it unnecessarily makes the concept more difficult to grasp, then it should be rejected.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy reading and writing both genres of poetry, because each throws a unique cast on the subjects they discuss, however it is important to say that not all poems which fall into these categories are made equal. I believe that a well written piece using rhyming couplets (which is what I think you mean by ‘50-55ish’) will sometimes make the content clearer than a poorly executed free verse poem written can. The same may be said for the opposite situation. In my experience though, it is easy to become inattentive when writing free verse poetry, as there are few to no obstacles that need avoiding, resulting in lazy sounding poetry. By this I mean to say that words can be the content, if the author chooses to put in the effort to make them so.
While I understand what Oliver means with her analysis of the place of greatest importance in a line, I disagree with her statement. If the importance of the beginning of a line is always seen as secondary, then what will encourage the reader to keep reading to the end of the line? I believe that the location of important ideas should be varied, because if enlightenment is always at the end with encouragement being a rarity along the way, I would not enjoy poetry as much as I do because it would become predictable.
I liked what Myers said about shaping poetry because some of these “shapes” seem more natural to me. Myers’s ideas on shaping provide his reader with options, rather than implying that there is one way to write a poem when it comes to shaping, as I felt Oliver did.
Cadence is very important in a poem. Contruction gives the poem more meaning. I think that it shows you care about a poem you write if you take the time to carefully consttruct it.
ReplyDeleteIt definitely depends on the person because for me, I like poems that rhyme, so I think that it would be better than free verse. Free verse can have a good idea but doesnt mean it sounds good. I think that any rhyming poem can sound somewhat good before its finished because its forced to fit together.
I think you can choose whether you want the end lines to have the "punch" or if you want the lines to end with the "punch".
I think a shape can enhance a poem but I dont think its a very important aspect.
I have found that cadence is always important to what I am trying to get across. In my opinion, the meaning of the poem can be affected greatly by the flow and the construction which the author uses to set it up. Its hard to say whether either free verse or rhyming is "better" than another because they are very different styles. Sometimes if you can feel the flow, rhyming comes easily and you are able to portray your ideas easily, but other times it can be restricting. being forced into rhyming when it is not natural can ruin the natural feel of good poems, so if it is not working i dont try to hard. If i where to have to choose however, i would go with free verse because it is not as confining
ReplyDelete